This interview with Diane Tavenner was recorded on February 25, 2020. The transcript for the audio excerpt will be available soon and the full show audio recording can be heard here.
Audio Transcript:
Whitney Port: Hey guys, I’m Whitney Port and this is With Whit. A lot of you might know me from reality TV, and the reality is a lot’s happened since The Hills. With Whit is dedicated to having real, raw, and occasionally ridiculous conversations with the people who have had a profound impact on me. Life changing moments, life changing people because on With Whit, very little is off limits.
Whitney Port: Hi everyone. It’s Whit, and welcome to With Whit. If you guys follow me on social media, you know that Sonny started school. He goes to a portable classroom at someone’s house two days a week, but is starting full-time in January at preschool. The portable class has been a great experience and I can’t express how relieved I am for him to start going (laughs) full-time because he really, really loves it and he’s ready for it. Timmy and I have done a lot of research on schools so we can find what is the best fit for the three of us. That’s why I’m so excited to share my next guest with you.
Whitney Port: Today I’m sitting with Diane Tavenner. She is the co-founder and CEO of Summit Public Schools, a leading network of public schools that operates 11 schools in California and Washington as well as a free program that enables schools across the U.S. to implement Summit learning, its nationally recognized personalized approach to teaching and learning. She is the author of Prepared: What Kids Need For a Fulfilled Life. Welcome, Diane.
Diane Tavenner: Thank you so much. It’s so great to be here with you.
Whitney Port: I’m so excited to have you because it is such a pivotal time in my life right now as Sonny stops going to this portable classroom that is essentially … I don’t want to call it like a daycare, but he goes to someone’s house with five other kids. They do a lot of different art projects, so it’s very free flowing-
Diane Tavenner: Yup.
Whitney Port: … and easy and artsy and actually in January, a spot opened up at the Montessori school that we wanted him to go to. So we’re pulling him out of the portable classroom and putting him into this five day a week school. It’s a little bit scary (laughs)-
Diane Tavenner: Right, yeah.
Whitney Port: … but exciting at the same time. So, it is just so timely that I sit down with you.
Diane Tavenner: Great.
Whitney Port: Um, I think the first thing that I really want to know about is, what is Summit learning? What was it based on, and what made you want to start it?
Diane Tavenner: Yeah, and I think your introduction into Montessori is gonna be really resonant with this story because the whole idea behind Summit, and Summit was started by hundreds of parents who came together and said-
Whitney Port: Okay.
Diane Tavenner: … you know, “We want something different from our kids. We’re looking around at all the schools and they have bits and pieces of what we want, but they don’t have the whole package of what we want.” And what that is, is ultimately they wanted their kids to be ready for a good life. You know? A- as parents, what do we care about? We care about our kids being happy.
Whitney Port: Exactly.
Diane Tavenner: Right?
Whitney Port: I was just gonna say, we just want them to be happy.
Diane Tavenner: We just want them to be happy.
Whitney Port: And like respectful-
Diane Tavenner: Yes. Yes.
Whitney Port: … people with kind hearts, but … (laughs)
Diane Tavenner: Yeah, and we want them to be able to, you know, take care of themselves. We don’t want them living in our basement for the rest of their life.
Whitney Port: Right, and become dependent. Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Diane Tavenner: Exactly. And so we ultimately want them to be happy. And so, we want schools that care about them and love them and where we know they’re happy there every day, but they’re also getting them ready for the future-
Whitney Port: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Diane Tavenner: … to be happy. And so, that was the premise of Summit from the very beginning. How can we prepare kids with the academic skills they need for sure, but also the habits of successful people, like being respectful and managing their time and setting goals and achieving them. And then also with the social emotional skills-
Whitney Port: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Diane Tavenner: ... and the people skills that they need, and how do we help them know who they are-
Whitney Port: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Diane Tavenner: … and what they care about and what matters to them. And so, we just thought to bring all those things together in a schooling experience that partnered with families-
Whitney Port: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Diane Tavenner: … so that we could get our kids prepared for life, ultimately. And so that is the- the premise of Summit, the schools we run, and then the program that we created to help other schools do what we were doing, give them the tools and the resources that we had in order to do that.
Whitney Port: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Amazing. So, what are some of those things that help? (laughs)
Diane Tavenner: Yeah.
Whitney Port: You know? Like, what are those pivotal things that make you guys different from other schools?
Diane Tavenner: Yeah.
Whitney Port: I mean, one … In Montessori school, I walked in, I took three different tours. Actually, four different tours-
Diane Tavenner: (laughs)
Whitney Port: … of preschool. I kind of limited it because I was like, my head is gonna explode-
Diane Tavenner: Right.
Whitney Port: … if I have too many choices. And I walked into the Montessori school and, like, it immediately just felt right. Like tears, you know-
Diane Tavenner: (laughs) Yes.
Whitney Port: … started coming and my husband and I looked at each other and we were like, “Oh my gosh.” There was something just like so unified about the school. The kids were helping each other-
Diane Tavenner: Yes.
Whitney Port: … and they were serving each other snacks.
Diane Tavenner: Yes.
Whitney Port: They were calm, they were independently playing.
Diane Tavenner: Yes.
Whitney Port: It just wasn’t what I had envisioned a preschool to be, which the other tours were. And no offense to them. Obviously I won’t name any names-
Diane Tavenner: [crosstalk 00:05:06]
Whitney Port: … but it was very much like glitter everywhere and 102.7, which is our pop station, playing on the radio and just like kind of frantic and all over the place.
Diane Tavenner: Yeah.
Whitney Port: And I just feel like Montessori has that really great mix of scholastic as well as just creating a good human. Um, so scholastic aside, what are some of those pivotal things that-
Diane Tavenner: Yeah.
Whitney Port: … Summit does to create that, especially for toddlers?
Diane Tavenner: Yeah.
Whitney Port: You know, that will be helpful for me [crosstalk 00:05:36].
Diane Tavenner: For sure. And I think what’s good for toddlers goes all the way through for high school kids, and I- I think some of the things you’re saying will really resonate. There’s sort of four big core elements of Summit schools, and the first is that the learning is really project based in nature. It’s very hands-on, it’s very real. So I’m sure that’s what you were seeing in Montessori is kids are doing real things in real life and you can play that all the way out up to high school where our seniors are doing projects in environmental sciences where they’re literally designing cities of the future-
Whitney Port: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Diane Tavenner: … and they’re applying the science to that. And so, but these are real questions that they have. Our kids are worried about our planet. They’re thinking about what our communities are gonna look like. And so, real world learning, hands-on learning, number one. Number two, self-directed. And so what you saw there in the school that you went to visit was kids really owning their own learning even at that little, little s- age.
Whitney Port: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Diane Tavenner: They can start to say, “Well, what do I want to learn today and how am I gonna direct my own learning and how am I gonna make choices?” And Montessori does a great job of building those skills in kids. Oftentimes our schools actually dis-incentivize kids from that. So if you think about most normal schools that people go to, we tell kids, “Show up at this time. Sit in this desk. Do this worksheet. Read this chapter. Answer these questions. Speak when you raise your hand and we call on …” We don’t empower kids to really direct and own their own learning. So, key element of Summit is that kids are owning their own learning and they’re building the skills to do that-
Whitney Port: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Diane Tavenner: … for the rest of their life. And then the third thing you pointed to is collaboration. Learning is a social activity. People learn from others and with others, and by engaging with others. And so, really learning how to collaborate with other people is not only important for learning, but it’s the future of work.
Whitney Port: Right.
Diane Tavenner: You know, people collaborating with each other. And then finally, a key element of learning is reflection. So, the ability to think on what you’ve been doing and then plan forward with that. And really, what did I like about what I just did? What did I not like? What did I accomplish? What didn’t I accomplish? What do I want to do better next time? What do I want to keep doing? Those types of reflective skills that very often happen with a mentor or a coach or a guide-
Whitney Port: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Diane Tavenner: … um, are the … really the four cornerstones of a Summit experience that kind of sound obvious if you’re-
Whitney Port: Right.
Diane Tavenner: … a parent, but actually not what you find in schools very often, sadly.
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Whitney Port: So, what would be some of the questions that people could ask when they go on tours or when they’re thinking about what school to send their kids to? What are the questions they can ask to make sure that their environment fosters this type of learning?
Diane Tavenner: Yeah. I think a couple that come to my mind are, one, you want to ask, what do they believe that kids are capable of?
Whitney Port: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Diane Tavenner: So, what do you expect of the kids in terms of their own learning? And you know, if you hear words like, “We have very strict classroom management,” just think about that word for a moment. Like, we’re managing the children in the classroom.
Whitney Port: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Diane Tavenner: Or if it’s a very rules-based environment, if you see a lot of very prescriptive type rules as opposed to what we would call a more principle-based environment where you have principles like we treat each other with respect.
Whitney Port: Right.
Diane Tavenner: That’s not a rule. That’s a principle. I mean, you know it when you see it, but it’s very different than, “Keep your hands to yourself.” Or, [crosstalk 00:11:38].
Whitney Port: Right. Well, that’s so hard, I mean, especially in parenting to decipher the difference between like disciplining them and-
Diane Tavenner: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Whitney Port: … creating boundaries.
Diane Tavenner: Exactly.
Whitney Port: And it’s so hard to know which one is which and how to implement one and not the other.
Diane Tavenner: Right.
Whitney Port: You know? That’s hard.
Diane Tavenner: It is hard. And so I think what we’re looking for is places that are really invested in building student capacity to really own and drive their own learning. And even little, little kids are very capable of doing a lot.
Whitney Port: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Diane Tavenner: And then over years, they just keep practicing and practicing and getting better and better.
Whitney Port: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Diane Tavenner: And we also have to accept that they’re gonna make mistakes and we have to help them learn from it. And so that’s where the reflection and the coaching comes in-
Whitney Port: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Diane Tavenner: … where we really pause and think about what we just talked about or what we just did or what we just said, and what we’d like to do better next time.
Whitney Port: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Diane Tavenner: Um, and so I think I would ask those questions and then I would also ask about the actual learning. Is it worksheet based? Is it more hands-on based? Are we taking real questions-
Whitney Port: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Diane Tavenner: … that kids have and their interests and really drawing the learning from that?
Whitney Port: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Diane Tavenner: Or is it a really defined set curriculum that’s not moving regardless of who we are-
Whitney Port: Right, mm-hmm (affirmative).
Diane Tavenner: … where we are?
Whitney Port: Yeah. I mean, what really struck me at the Montessori school was that the kids come in and they have their choice of all the different little activities. You know-
Diane Tavenner: Yes.
Whitney Port: … the school is set up with all these different little-
Diane Tavenner: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Whitney Port: … I mean for lack of a better word, games or projects or whatever.
Diane Tavenner: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Whitney Port: And the kids can choose what they want to work on. And then it’s just this evolving rotation of kids like doing one project, finishing it, and then moving on to the next one.
Diane Tavenner: Exactly.
Whitney Port: And that just felt like such a nice flow for me as opposed to expecting all these kids to just sit down and watch a teacher, and listen to a teacher-
Diane Tavenner: Exactly.
Whitney Port: … instruct them on something. So yeah, I’m feeling really good about my decision so far. (laughing)
Diane Tavenner: (laughing)
Whitney Port: Um, was this something like … You have one kid, you were telling me before.
Diane Tavenner: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Whitney Port: When did you start to realize that this was a necessity? Like, were you a very aware parent and like very involved in this kind of approach when he was young? Or did this start to happen for you when he was grown up, you know?
Diane Tavenner: Yeah. Well, I was a teacher before I was a mom.
Whitney Port: Okay, that makes sense.
Diane Tavenner: And so I started to develop my philosophy and belief as a teacher-
Whitney Port: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Diane Tavenner: … through a lot of like trial and error, and you know, I think misdirected in some ways and things like that.
Whitney Port: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Diane Tavenner: And then, but I’ll tell you when you’re a teacher and then you- you become a mom, the whole world changes.
Whitney Port: Yeah. (laughs)
Diane Tavenner: Because being a mom and a teacher now, that- that’s just a totally different story and-
Whitney Port: Well, it’s all … It’s like the difference between sympathy and empathy.
Diane Tavenner: Exac-
Whitney Port: Like, you can feel sympathetic towards someone, but it’s not until you’ve actually gone through what they’ve gone through that you actually have real empathy.
Diane Tavenner: Exactly.
Whitney Port: Yeah.
Diane Tavenner: Exactly. And so when I started experiencing my own child at home and then thinking about what I wanted when he- I would send him to someone el- … trust someone else-
Whitney Port: Yeah. Yeah.
Diane Tavenner: … with my child-
Whitney Port: So scary. (laughs)
Diane Tavenner: … and ask them to partner with me in raising him because that’s what we really need schools to do is partner with us.
Whitney Port: I mean, if you think about it, they’re with them pretty much half of their lives.
Diane Tavenner: Yes.
Whitney Port: If I’m sending Sonny to school from 8:30 to 1:30 five days a week, like, that environment is having a profound effect on them.
Diane Tavenner: A profound effect.
Whitney Port: Yeah.
Diane Tavenner: And 8:30 to 1:30 will only happen for a short period of time and then it will increase (laughs) more and more, right?
Whitney Port: (laughs) Yes. Right, right, right.
Diane Tavenner: And so, this is really our partner in raising our child. And once I put myself in that place, I really started to rethink everything that I did as a teacher, as and an educator.
Whitney Port: Interesting.
Diane Tavenner: And I think … I- I mean, I’m still the same person. I’m still deeply committed to kids and I’m deeply committed to their success, but I think I definitely became much more worried about us raising them as good, whole people-
Whitney Port: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Diane Tavenner: … and realizing that the academics come along with that-
Whitney Port: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Diane Tavenner: … and not just completely focused on the academic performance and the, you know, getting them ready for college and recognizing how intertwined those two pieces were.
Whitney Port: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Diane Tavenner: So I think that really changed things for me. And then it’s interesting because my son goes to one of my schools now.
Whitney Port: Yeah?
Diane Tavenner: And it’s really interesting to be a parent and get mad at your school when you actually run the school.
Whitney Port: (laughing) Yeah.
Diane Tavenner: Because you know, it’s inevitable that as a parent, you’re gonna not gonna be happy about something or you’re not gonna like something or you’re gonna hear something.
Whitney Port: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Diane Tavenner: And then I have to think, “Well, gosh, why did I do that as a school?” And one of the reasons that I wrote this book is because I feel like parents and schools are so oftentimes not working together-
Whitney Port: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Diane Tavenner: … and they’re kind of parallel plane, you know? They’re sort of side by side but they’re not cla- … and wha- … I really wanted to bring those two parts of my life together-
Whitney Port: Yeah.
Diane Tavenner: … because I think if parents and schools can really collaborate, we’ll be so much better off and-
Whitney Port: Totally.
Diane Tavenner: … so much better for our kids.
Whitney Port: Yeah, and I think it will cause less confusion-
Diane Tavenner: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Whitney Port: … because kids need normalcy, they need routine, they need like the same kinds of lessons from both people. So for me, I’m still looking forward to learning from the teachers at the school-
Diane Tavenner: Yes.
Whitney Port: … because I am kind of lax when it comes to discipline and don’t really have set routine and it- I’m not really consistent. Sometimes I say yes to things for him, sometimes I say no-
Diane Tavenner: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
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Diane Tavenner: Yeah. It’s such a great question, and- and, um, we’ve created this organization called Prepared Parents because it’s … This is what parents ask us all the time.
Whitney Port: Yeah.
Diane Tavenner: Like, what can I do at home? And then, “Oh, by the way, I’m super busy.”
Whitney Port: Yeah. (laughs)
Diane Tavenner: I don’t have a lot of time. Like, it needs to fit in five or 10 minutes.
Whitney Port: Yeah.
Diane Tavenner: And you know, and so we’re working really hard to help parents think about routines. And the key that you said there is routines. Because when you do something as a routine, even if it’s only five minutes a day, it ends up adding up. And over time, I mean, it’s an incredible amount of development you can do.
Whitney Port: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Diane Tavenner: I’ll- I’ll- I’ll tell you a fun story about my son. So, when he was about 12, my husband and I started thinking, “Well, we have six years left with him.” And one of the things that’s important to us is healthy eating, and we-
Whitney Port: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Diane Tavenner: … cook a ton in our home and we’re like, you know, he can cook a meal a week like for the family. And if he did that-
Whitney Port: Amazing.
Diane Tavenner: … for the next six years, he would leave us with the whole sort of repertoire of things he could make. You know?
Whitney Port: Yeah.
Diane Tavenner: We know he can feed himself then when he leaves us.
Whitney Port: (laughs) Yeah.
Diane Tavenner: And so we started doing this with him, in just a routine, like one meal a week, he was in charge of and he got to pick what we were gonna eat and he would figure out the ingredients. And I didn’t just throw him in there and say, you know, “Go make something.” I like curated-
Whitney Port: [crosstalk 00:21:24] sous-chef and … Yeah.
Diane Tavenner: Yeah, I curated a set of recipes and made sure that they were doable. And, you know, and at first my husband and I made some mistakes, like he would n- need help and we’d sort of jump in and like next thing we were taking over and he was out of the kitchen. And then sometimes we would be too hands off and you know, things are burning. But over time, he’s gotten really good at it and it’s just-
Whitney Port: Wow.
Diane Tavenner: … that diligence of like week after week after week. And so that’s a bigger thing, but I would advise, think about the things you really value and care about and what could your child like practice over and over where that practice would add up to something really meaningful-
Whitney Port: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Diane Tavenner: … by the time they enter adulthood.
Whitney Port: Yeah. I’m trying to think of what that would be, ’cause I don’t want to like push him into anything.
Diane Tavenner: When your guy’s pretty little still, yeah.
Whitney Port: Yeah, he’s two and a half.
Diane Tavenner: Yeah.
Whitney Port: So, I try to think of things to do with him besides just playing with toys, and it’s so hard for me to get creative.
Diane Tavenner: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Whitney Port: Like, I’ll bring out coloring books or Play-Doh or you know, things like that. But I’m d- sort of at a loss for things to do with him that don’t involve like just gonna a park and playing or-
Diane Tavenner: Yeah.
Whitney Port: … like a play gym or museum. And I guess as he gets older-
Diane Tavenner: Your options will open up for sure.
Whitney Port: Yeah.
Diane Tavenner: I mean, I think, you know, one thing at that age, for sure, having a lot of books around-
Whitney Port: Yeah.
Diane Tavenner: … makes a big difference and I’m sure you’re doing that.
Whitney Port: Yes.
Diane Tavenner: Um, but I- I do think before you know it, like, things will begin to open up. And I remember, you know, in that range, my son was obsessed with trains and bridges.
Whitney Port: Yeah.
Diane Tavenner: Uh, you know? And then it moved on to Legos and then it moved on … You know? And so I think though, what you’re bringing up is letting them sort of lead with what they’re interested in-
Whitney Port: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Diane Tavenner: … and putting … Wh- what you’re talking about is letting him explore. So, the fact that you’re thinking about putting a bunch of different options in front of him is what we would call the first step towards figuring out what they care about. So, expose them to a whole bunch of things.
Whitney Port: Right.
Diane Tavenner: Let them explore them, and then they’ll pick some certain things that they want to follow and let them follow them-
Whitney Port: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Diane Tavenner: … for a while, for as long as that leads, and then be okay if they ended up leaving it.
Whitney Port: Right, [crosstalk 00:23:35] bored with it. Yeah.
Diane Tavenner: You know, and- and sort of the path is littered with a bunch of stuff that they leave behind. But ultimately, they sort of end up zeroing in on something. Oh, again, back to my son, we always tell the stories of our own kids, I think. But you know, one thing that’s endured for him is he has this real interest in maps.
Whitney Port: Interesting.
Diane Tavenner: And, um, he would draw maps and then he’s- he loves geography and history, and so it connects to that. But then he’s- he creates these very intricate maps and this one has persisted for year after year after year. And I always thought, like, where is this going? I don’t even know if there’s cartographers anymore in the world. You know?
Whitney Port: (laughs)
Diane Tavenner: And you know, and I would think he’s spending a lot of time on this. [crosstalk 00:24:17]
Whitney Port: Is this a waste of his time? Yeah.
Diane Tavenner: Exactly. And um, this past year a good friend of his is writing a fantasy book and asked my son to make the map for the fantasy book. And if you look at fantasy books, they all have a map in them.
Whitney Port: Yeah.
Diane Tavenner: And he created this most amazing, beautiful map.
Whitney Port: Oh my gosh.
Diane Tavenner: And I was like, I would’ve had no idea where this was going.
Whitney Port: Right, and it doesn’t even matter.
Diane Tavenner: It doesn’t matter ’cause it’s a passion and-
Whitney Port: Yeah.
Diane Tavenner: … who knows where it’s going. But I think sometimes as parents, we get so nervous and worried like, oh no, we have to have them in the right activity at the right moment-
Whitney Port: Right.
Diane Tavenner: … or they’re not gonna get in the right school. And I think letting them follow their passion and their interest and even without knowing it is okay.
Whitney Port: Yeah.
Diane Tavenner: Like, they’re developing their identity in that way. Yeah.
Whitney Port: Yeah. I’m so excited to get there, ’cause right now when people ask me like, “What’s Sonny like?” I’m like, “I don’t know, it’s so hard to tell. Like, he seems like just a two and a half year old.” You know?
Diane Tavenner: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Whitney Port: Like, he loves cars and trucks and he’s … Like, whenever he sees anything little, he calls it a baby and goes, “Oh, baby.” Like, so I think that he has some compassion, you know, and sweetness and I- … It’s just like, he’s still so little, it’s so hard to know-
Diane Tavenner: Right.
Whitney Port: … everything that he’s into to be able to like foster those interests. But like you said, as he grows older, I’ll be able to tell more.
Diane Tavenner: You will.
Whitney Port: But it is so important to, like … especially now starting school, for people to stop themselves from comparing their kids’, you know, development to somebody else’s. And sometimes I even catch myself doing that. And when his teacher this morning just said, like, “He’s so smart.” Like he- he knows all the songs. And I’m like, “Oh, that’s so great.” My- my instinct is to be like, “Oh my God.” Like, “I have a smart kid.” Like, “He’s gonna go to Yale.” And then I’m like, wait a second, you’re like [crosstalk 00:26:09]-
Diane Tavenner: Don’t buy into that.
Whitney Port: Right, don’t buy into it.
Diane Tavenner: Yeah. Yeah.
Whitney Port: And so, like, what’s like a mantra that we can tell ourself-
Diane Tavenner: Yeah.
Whitney Port: … when we find ourselves like wanting to push our kids or-
Diane Tavenner: Right.
Whitney Port: … comparing them to others?
Diane Tavenner: Right. And I think that what you’re … The story you’re telling me is bringing up for me is we’ve had the benefit of working with some really amazing, like, learning scientists and psychologists at Summit, some of the best people in the world. So like Carol Dweck who works on mindset, which most people have, and growth mindset, which most people have heard of. And so, the story of the smart label really has me thinking about her work, which says what we want our kids to believe is that achievement comes from hard work.
Whitney Port: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Diane Tavenner: And that whether it- … This idea of smart, you’re not fixed … No one is fixed smart. You know? There’s all these different ways you can be smart and there’s all these different things you can know and what we want … Like, maybe he knows those songs because he practices them-
Whitney Port: Mm-hmm (affirmative)
Diane Tavenner: … or because you’re a musically inclined family and you have music playing a lot, or … I mean, I’m sure there’s some reason why.
Whitney Port: Right.
Diane Tavenner: It’s not because he’s just innately smart.
Whitney Port: Right.
Diane Tavenner: And what’s really important is that he knows, he starts to figure out that that hard work or that effort or that passion or what leads to him being good at something or successful in something, because that will allow him to continue to grow.
Whitney Port: Right.
Diane Tavenner: And so I think that’s maybe the check on us is it feels good when you’re a parent and someone compliments your child. Right?
Whitney Port: Right, right.
Diane Tavenner: And I think sometimes we then try to chase that good feeling.
Whitney Port: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Diane Tavenner: And I think if we’re really focused on what’s best for our child now and in the future, we think about, well, what will help them continue to grow and develop?
Whitney Port: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Diane Tavenner: And it’s putting in the work. It’s-
Whitney Port: Right.
Diane Tavenner: … you know, learning the skills, it’s practicing, it’s all of that stuff that actually leads to that.
Whitney Port: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Diane Tavenner: And- and there’s not a finite number of things that he- he- he’s good at infinitely.
Whitney Port: Right.
Diane Tavenner: You know, there’s an infinite number of things that are possible there. And so we don’t want to close any doors.
Whitney Port: Right. What would you say about like praising when they do something good? Like the other day at the park, he … You know, two year olds, it’s very hard to share, but he-
Diane Tavenner: Right.
Whitney Port: … he was playing with someone else’s toy and the family needed to go, so he gave back the toy and it was very easy. There was no fight. And so my reaction was like, “Oh my gosh, Sonny, that was so amazing.” Like, “You’re such a good sharer. That was so sweet. Thank you for making that easy.” And then I was like, wait, was that so overboard? Like, I don’t know. I- I have this feeling of like, what am I to praise and then what am I to just not pay attention to it? I don’t know.
Diane Tavenner: Yeah.
Whitney Port: It’s conflicting.
Diane Tavenner: Well, I think praise is great, I think if you think about specifically what you thought was good about that.
Whitney Port: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Diane Tavenner: And so for example, the idea that he was my- … um, you know, whatever your value is, that you were respectful and you respected that that was his toy and you let him take it.
Whitney Port: Mm-hmm (affirmative). That’s-
Diane Tavenner: That was great.
Whitney Port: That’s what I was feeling, yeah.
Diane Tavenner: Yeah. And I think being specific like that is really-
Whitney Port: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Diane Tavenner: … I think what the science would tell us is the most effective thing because then he will hear, oh, it’s not action. It’s not that I am a good-
Whitney Port: Just good at sharing.
Diane Tavenner: It’s not that I’m a-
Whitney Port: It’s that it’s respectful-
Diane Tavenner: Exactly.
Whitney Port: … to give a toy back to someone who owns it. Yeah.
Diane Tavenner: Exactly. Exactly.
Whitney Port: Yeah.
Diane Tavenner: And- and that starts to click over and over and over again.
Whitney Port: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Diane Tavenner: And so it’s not this, um … Because if- if in another situation then, when he doesn’t do that, then what does that say? Is he, uh, is he a bad sharer then?
Whitney Port: Right.
Diane Tavenner: And we don’t want to get into that situation. And so it’s more about, like, what are my actions doing and saying, and I can always change my actions as opposed to, are you a good or bad person?
Whitney Port: Right, right. That leads me to this other thing that the Montessori school does, is that they make sure that when you’re finished with your project, you put it away.
Diane Tavenner: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Whitney Port: And I think that is so important. And- and Timmy was like … Timmy is my husband.
Diane Tavenner: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Whitney Port: This is something that we’ve been working on. A first, when Sonny would start to do … He just wanted nothing to do with putting away. He wanted to play with something, leave the mess, and then not put it away. And so, instead of just saying like, “This is the right thing to do,” we’re working on like, we- … This is what we have to do because someone else is going to want to play with it and it needs to be cleaned up for them. So it’s all about, like … It’s just … I don’t know. It’s- it’s a lot of thought that has to go on how you speak to your child. (laughs)
Diane Tavenner: It is a lot of thought. It is a lot of thought.
Whitney Port: Um, but it is so [crosstalk 00:30:41].
Diane Tavenner: It’s worth it. It’s worth it in the end, it really is.
Whitney Port: Yeah. So you started the website how long ago?
Diane Tavenner: It launched with the book-
Whitney Port: Amazing, okay.
Diane Tavenner: … and it really was, um, though the prepared for success dot org website came into being because we had so many parents that we work with who said to us, “What do we do at home and how do we, how do we help our kids and how do we take these lessons home?”
Whitney Port: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Diane Tavenner: And so the website is really trying to bring parents together and share with them simple, easy, daily routines, weekly routines that they can do with their kids, whether they’re driving in the car or they’re walking to the park or-
Whitney Port: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Diane Tavenner: … right before bedtime is sometimes a nice time because your child … You know, you sort of-
Whitney Port: Is quiet and they can actually pay attention.
Diane Tavenner: … catch them in that moment. Exactly. And, um, they’re pretty simple basic routines. But, e- effectively, they ask families to just help their kids reflect on what’s happened. So think back, and then plan forward. So, we always want to be thinking about that as well. And these are just some basic good rhythms that we can get in as families that help our kids ultimately develop those skills of self-direction-
Whitney Port: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Diane Tavenner: … and reflection and collaboration that end up helping them figure out who they are-
Whitney Port: Right.
Diane Tavenner: … and ultimately prepare them to be fulfilled people.
Whitney Port: Happy people.
Diane Tavenner: Yeah.
Whitney Port: So what are some of the specific things that maybe I could-
Diane Tavenner: Yeah.
Whitney Port: … with a two and a half year old start to-
Diane Tavenner: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Whitney Port: … implement into our life.
Diane Tavenner: Well, I can imagine like, um, my guess is you probably have a bedtime routine-
Whitney Port: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Diane Tavenner: … at night and I think with a two and a half year old, that’s like a really nice moment to do that.
Whitney Port: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Diane Tavenner: And just even starting the practice of like having your two and a half year old just even thinking about, like, what was your favorite part of the day? And you know, was there a part of the day that you didn’t like as much? And some families develop little code words about this-
Whitney Port: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Diane Tavenner: … so they have like petals and thorns.
Whitney Port: Right, right, right, right.
Diane Tavenner: You know, or something like that.
Whitney Port: Mm-hmm (affirmative), mm-hmm (affirmative).
Diane Tavenner: Um, and then the next question is, well, how do you do the part of your day that you like the most? Is that gonna happen tomorrow?
Whitney Port: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Diane Tavenner: And if so, how?
Whitney Port: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Diane Tavenner: And the part that you didn’t like as much, how could that be better tomorrow?
Whitney Port: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Diane Tavenner: So even just like simple questions like that. And at first the two and a half year old will really struggle to especially think about the next day.
Whitney Port: Yeah, I can’t imagine that Sonny would understand-
Diane Tavenner: Yeah.
Whitney Port: … or even know how to respond to that, yeah.
Diane Tavenner: Right, but you’d be surprised. So we have a, uh, one of our teammates who I’ve taught with forever and is an amazing educator, has a child that age. And at first he was so frustrated because he’s like, “She’s just not getting it.”
Whitney Port: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Diane Tavenner: We’re like, “Adam, give her a moment.” Right? But after about two or three months of sort of this practice, he’s like, “She’s getting it now.”
Whitney Port: No way.
Diane Tavenner: And she can … She actually thought about today, tonight how she really wants to do the water table tomorrow. Her … You know?
Whitney Port: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Diane Tavenner: And she didn’t get to do the water table today. And so, great. We talked about, well, if you want to do the water table, what do you need to do to make that happen? Well, I need to tell [inaudible 00:33:45] that I want to do the water table.
Whitney Port: Yeah.
Diane Tavenner: And it seems simple, but that just is the beginning of empowerment even at that early age-
Whitney Port: Yeah, yeah.
Diane Tavenner: … where they’re really planning for the day that they want-
Whitney Port: Right.
Diane Tavenner: … and the learning they want=
Whitney Port: Right.
Diane Tavenner: … and so-
Whitney Port: And that … And they’re … They really are understanding you but they haven’t been able to … They’re not able to express it yet-
Diane Tavenner: Right, right.
Whitney Port: … but you just have to kinda like give them the verbiage.
Diane Tavenner: And, oh, practicing over-
Whitney Port: Over and over.
Diane Tavenner: … and over and over and over again.
Whitney Port: Yeah, that’s a really good tip.
Diane Tavenner: Yeah. Yeah.
Whitney Port: Okay, awesome.
Diane Tavenner: Great.
Whitney Port: Amazing. Okay, well, thank you-
Diane Tavenner: Thank you. No, thank you.
Whitney Port: … so much for coming. Where can we find you? Give us your website again and all of your social.
Diane Tavenner: Great. You can find us at prepared for success dot org and prepared for success Instagram and Facebook. Great.
Whitney Port: Okay, awesome. (laughing)
Diane Tavenner: You can tell I don’t do that [crosstalk 00:34:34].
Whitney Port: Thank you so much, Diane. (laughing)
Whitney Port: Thank you guys so much for listening. I hope you loved this episode. Don’t forget to subscribe, rate and review. I’d love to hear what you think and anything more or even less you’d want to hear about. Tune in every Tuesday for a new episode. If you want to know more about what I’m up to, you can find me on Instagram at Whitney Eve Port, my website, Whitney Port dot com, and my YouTube channel, Whitney Port. Peace in the streets.