This interview with Diane Tavenner was recorded on November 6, 2019. The transcript for the audio excerpt can be found below and the full show audio recording can be heard here.
Highlights from the Interview:
Audio Transcript:
Leeann Tweeden: All right, right now we’re gonna be welcoming a parenting expert and founder of one of America’s most successful charter school networks, um, and she’s gonna talk to us about how American schools are failing our children. Uh, please welcome Diane Tavenner. Diane, thank you so much for joining us today. How are you?
Diane Tavenner: I’m well, thanks for having me.
Leeann Tweeden: All right, so, you know here in California, with the LAUSD, you know we’re, we’re always rolling our eyes and we have so many administrators, there’s so much money here put into our schools and it just seems like every year, worse and worse and worse outcomes. Kids are graduating not knowing how to read and write or reading with a fourth grade uh, reading and math, with the fourth grade- [crosstalk 00:00:40] proficiency.
Randy Wang: And there was just this AP report that eighth graders are falling behind in math and reading, a little more than third of eighth graders are profici- and [inaudible 00:00:48] if can’t actually read and if you can’t read, you can’t learn.
Leeann Tweeden: Uh, yeah and you can’t get a job and you can’t be successful. I mean these are, uh, I mean, seriously when I, when I was reading this report I’m like, “Hasn’t this been going on for a long time though in America?” W- what is happening, Diane? Please explain to us what has been happening in our school systems.
Diane Tavenner: Well, I think to begin with um, the school system that we’re operating today was designed well over a hundred years ago and it just doesn’t apply for our world anymore and so while it made a lot of sense at the turn of the last century when we were trying to get people ready for an industrial economy-
Leeann Tweeden: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Diane Tavenner: It doesn’t make sense today and um, I think we probably of all [inaudible 00:01:29] if we think about school and what our experience was like, it was going into a classroom with a row, you know, five rows of desks-
Leeann Tweeden: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Diane Tavenner: 30 desks, the teacher conveying information to us and us regurgitating it and that’s just not actually preparing kids for the world we live in, the skills that they need, and what makes sense to them in our day and age. So the, the big problem we have is we haven’t redesigned our schools to meet the needs of, of our kids today and the world that we live in today.
Leeann Tweeden: And so you run a, a, a successful charter school network. W- w- why, and e- even now here charter schools, I mean a lot of people hate them but they’re successful. The kids are learning and then, w- what are charter schools doing that are different than say public schools? I mean, why are you so successful with them?
Diane Tavenner: Well the promise of charter schools, and this is you know, not every charter school has lived up to the promise, but a lot of them have. The promise is that a charter school really exchanges um, some of the o- the bureaucracy and some of that uh, sort of legacy and history that’s holding our schools back for some freedom. Um, but they also have a high degree of accountability because charter schools unlike our regular schools is they don’t perform, parents don’t choose them, they’re close.
Leeann Tweeden: Right.
Diane Tavenner: And so charter schools, the promise of them are places where are can redesign. We can rethink how we’re doing schools so that we can serve our kids best. And so, the, the schools that I run, Summit Schools, that’s exactly what we’ve done there. We have worked with parents, with our community, with people who understand how kids learn and the science and how our brains work and have resigned the schooling experience to fit what kids really need and that’s why we’re successful.
Leeann Tweeden: You know it’s interesting, um, m- m- uh, I have two young children um, they just turned four and six. So one’s in pre-school, one’s in kindergarten, and you know, I send them to a private school ’cause I just don’t, I don’t feel confident in public schools, especially here in Los Angeles, even though we live in a, in an area with decent public schools. But, um, you know my husband and I really focus on getting them a good education and we feel that’s very important.
Leeann Tweeden: But, uh, what I feel like with schools, and I talk to my other mom friends that you know my, my daughter dances with, and, like you said, I think there’s so many outdated things and this is just my own opinion, and maybe- you can maybe comment on this but I feel like kids are, like you said, it’s like cookie cutter things, you’re sending them to school, this is what, you know, read this, do th- well, gosh kids aren’t even reading books these days. I mean, I heard kids are graduating high school and going into college, kids even going into college and have never read a book cover to cover, which I don’t, I don’t, I’m like, what happened to book reports?
Randy Wang: I still haven’t.
Diane Tavenner: (laughs)
Leeann Tweeden: Oh, Randy. But anyways so, I mean, besides that. But, you know, the- life skills I mean because we are trying to get children ready for the real world, not every kid is gonna be going to college, but you have to give the kid, kids the best chance. I mean, w- I had home economics and I’m probably dating myself when I was in school-
Diane Tavenner: (laughs)
Leeann Tweeden: And you know people are like, “What’s home economics?” But I’m like, not only were we taught to cook, I was taught how to sew, I could sew a bag, I could sew a button on a pair of pants.
Randy Wang: I might need your help later, by the way.
Leeann Tweeden: Yes, well you couldn’t even change a tire. I could change, I could do that for you too, Randy. But I mean things that are like life skills that are important things that, things that, I- you know, w- a lot of things that I felt like that are learned in school, you’ll never use again and then you know, w- kids now are graduating, they don’t know how to deal with money, they don’t understand economics and how to save and percentage and mu- and credit cards and debt and things that are really, really, really important that can really set up a kid for life at least the understanding of it and we’re not even providing for that in school.
Diane Tavenner: Well, indeed, that’s one of the things our schools should be doing and, and at Summit we call these the Habits of Success. So, as important to reading and writing and math, and don’t get me wrong those are incredibly [crosstalk 00:05:29] important skills, yeah.
Leeann Tweeden: Oh, very important of course.
Diane Tavenner: But as important for us are the Habits of Success and just as you were describing, there’s a whole suite of things we need to be able to do in order to be prepared for adulthood and for life. And we believe that schools not only have a responsibility to teach those but can teach those skills incredibly well and when you combine the learning of those skills with the learning of math and science and history and reading, you actually get a really robust and interesting school environment and it’s the exact kind of environment that really does prepare kids for the future. And I think the benefit there is that not all kids come from homes where they have someone who can teach those skills-
Leeann Tweeden: That’s exactly right.
Diane Tavenner: And so, that’s what our schools system can do, but you know what? Even for kids, I’m sure your kids come from a r- a lovely family and you can teach them that the same as mine but my child benefits from being in the school environment where-
Leeann Tweeden: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Diane Tavenner: There is a focus on the Habits of Success and it’s just part of a routine, it’s how, it’s how we live our daily experience at school. It’s what we’re practicing every single day- [crosstalk 00:06:42]
Leeann Tweeden: And just like you’re saying habit and routine-
Diane Tavenner: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Leeann Tweeden: Just those two things, no matter what it is, habit and routine. We’ve had a routine with our children since they were born, they know what to expect, they know what we expect of them, it’s the same sleep pattern every night. Dinner, bath, get ready- [crosstalk 00:06:57]
Diane Tavenner: Exactly.
Leeann Tweeden: Reading, bed time so they’re comfortable, they, they, they’re in an environment where they can learn because they’re not anxious. They know what to expect. So those are the things, like you said, even you know, yes, okay, the, the subjects that you’re talking about yes, but even just the actual fact of habits and things that- [crosstalk 00:07:14]
Diane Tavenner: Yeah.
Leeann Tweeden: Kids can do everyday in school no matter what it is that they’re doing, but those habits, that’s a great thing for kids to, to, to learn because like you said, look, kids from all kind of backgrounds, all socioe- economic backgrounds and some kids don’t have that but if they can learn those things, those fundamentals from the beginning from kindergarten, that will take them a long way and get them prepared like we said when they graduate high school, to get them to be productive members of society. Look, I don’t think any person wants to be on the government [inaudible 00:07:43], you know, they don’t want to be handed down money- [crosstalk 00:07:46]
Diane Tavenner: They don’t.
Leeann Tweeden: I mean, people do like to be self-sufficient and, and to have that pride and go, “I can get a job.” Y- you know, not everybody is gonna be a billionaire and a Bill Gates but not everybody is gonna be on welfare for the rest of their lives and have to rely on other people to take care of them, but if we give them good chance at learning the fundamentals from the beginning and have a school system that understands what it is that we need to teach them then, w- we can, I think we can do a lot better than what we’re doing now, especially here in Los Angeles.
Diane Tavenner: You couldn’t be more right about this and this is why the um, one of the primary focuses of our schools is teaching kids what we call self direction and it’s exactly what we’re talking about. You, building the skills and habits so they can own their own learning and they can set their own goals, they can drive where they wanna go in their life. No one wants to be dependent on other people. Everyone wants to have agency, it’s part of the human nature and spirit.
Leeann Tweeden: Yes.
Diane Tavenner: And so, as a school you have to really rethink how you’re operating in order to create an environment that values that. ‘Cause think about it just for a moment, like that’s not what school is about. School is about telling kids to show up at a certain time, sit in a specific seat, do specific assignment, listen to what the teacher tells you to, you know even at home, homework is all about do what I tell you on this day-
Leeann Tweeden: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Diane Tavenner: At this time. [crosstalk 00:09:10]
Leeann Tweeden: Turn it back in. Yup.
Diane Tavenner: There is no discretion there, there is no opportunity for kids to learn how to actually make a project plan and plan their time out.
Leeann Tweeden: Right.
Diane Tavenner: And think about, you know, and, and, schools that actually focus on kids having agency and then design the experience everyday around that, that’s how kids learn those skills overtime- [crosstalk 00:09:31]
Leeann Tweeden: And, and-
Diane Tavenner: You can’t wait until their senior year (laughs).
Leeann Tweeden: Oh right, it’s too late.
Diane Tavenner: Oh [crosstalk 00:09:35] two months! You know-
Leeann Tweeden: That’s too late, and I always say, you know learning experiences, learning moments that you can teach kids. I mean my son is in kindergarten, he’s six and sometimes you know, I mean, this morning they had a, um, chapel at their school but it was a Veteran’s Day program and my son plays piano. He was gonna play Yankee Doodle, well yesterday was their final rehearsal and they forgot they told him he was gonna play and sing Yankee Doodle to open the show and he said, “Mom, I, you know, I don’t know that I’m gonna play it,” last night when we’re driving home and I go, “What do you mean?” And he goes, “Well they, they didn’t have me practice,” and I said, “Mmm,” well so I, I texted for him, “Hey is [Cain 00:10:11] playing or not? Just so I can make him not feel anxious tonight.”
Leeann Tweeden: Fine either way, you know, he can play, he’s played it in recital before and you know, Cain, I go, “Why didn’t you ask your teacher?” And he’s like, “Well, it was crazy and I was, I was following her on stage and she wasn’t listening to me, or she was, she didn’t hear me-
Diane Tavenner: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Leeann Tweeden: I was trying to get her attention.” And I said Cain this is one of those moments you actually need to say ‘I need to talk to you Miss Lopez because this is something where I need to talk to, because this is for tomorrow,” you know, he needs to fight for himself and advocate for himself because this is something very important, not just something that can, you know, if he never talked to her it’d be fine.
Diane Tavenner: Right.
Leeann Tweeden: You know, and I’m like, “Okay Cain, this is a teachable moment. You have to stand up and advocate for yourself because you didn’t get to practice and rehearse.” He knocked it out of the park this morning, thank you very much.
Randy Wang: Look at you.
Diane Tavenner: (laughs)
Leeann Tweeden: But, you know because he had already rehearsed it before. But you know, that’s what I’m saying these teachable moments where he needs to be his own little person and learn in an environment-
Diane Tavenner: [inaudible 00:11:04]
Leeann Tweeden: That’s safe, not like, oh, this is an environment where, you know, if he doesn’t do something it could cause his death or bodily harm-
Diane Tavenner: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Leeann Tweeden: But this is where we’re supposed to foster him learning and being his own independent person. He’s gonna make mistakes but that’s where you learn and become a better person as you grow up.
Diane Tavenner: Well, and you couldn’t be more right about this, it’s really popular in society right now to talk about how we should let our kids fail, right?
Leeann Tweeden: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Diane Tavenner: And there’s this big movement around that, it, it’s absolutely right on one level because in order to learn and grow you do have to have setback and you do have to have some challenges and you learn from them, but a couple things need to be true in those moments. One, it can’t be a failure that actually closes doors to your future and so one big mistake people make is they let kids fail at these really huge moments in time-
Leeann Tweeden: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Diane Tavenner: And this is not the place to actually have a learning moment.
Leeann Tweeden: Right.
Diane Tavenner: And, and two is you actually have to learn from it so there has to be a coach, or guide, or mentor, or parents there has to be a thoughtful reflection on what happened here? What didn’t go right so that you can apply that going forward and if those two things aren’t true, just having kids fail they’re not gonna learn anything from that-
Randy Wang: No.
Diane Tavenner: Especially not if it’s in a a really high stakes moment-
Randy Wang: You know worse, they’ll uh, they’ll end up in radio.
Leeann Tweeden: (laughs)
Diane Tavenner: (laughs)
Leeann Tweeden: But that’s why I did call his teachers and they did work it out and he was able to do it so, well Diane, thank you so much for, for giving us some of your insight and, and you know, I hope, you know, more school systems, you know, take into account what kids really need to learn and not just memorizing and taking test, and just, you know, you know churning them out like, you know, it, we needs kids to be productive members of society. That’s what we’re expecting of them and that, and that’s what I hope schools are, are, or hopefully they’re waking up to this and I appreciate your insight on that.
Diane Tavenner: Well so do I, thank you for having me and for those parents who um, don’t necessarily have a school yet that is doing this with them, we did we have created an organization called preparedforsuccess.org
Leeann Tweeden: Uh-huh, prepared.
Diane Tavenner: It’s for parents and what, we as parents can do at home, just some of those stories you’ve told to help our kids, um, develop these skills.
Leeann Tweeden: Excellent, preparedforsuccess.org. Diane Tavenner, thank you so much for joining us today.
Diane Tavenner: Thank you. Bye bye.
Leeann Tweeden: Of course, bye bye. That’s Randy Wang- (silence).